Who would you say your favorite restyler is oh man all no I’m joking
all I love putting people on the spot like that I will tell you this if you say Jared I’m gonna punch you I will
tell you this I I’ve been around I I love Josh how organized ru20 is I think
it’s such a you know you you’ve taken a page out of out of dealerships I mean
and and probably out of other Industries right welcome to the ride and style
podcast your turbocharged pit stop for automotive restyling buckle up with
Jesse and Josh all right welcome to another
episode of the ride in style podcast we’re on episode 13 and today we have Eric Holmes of Eastman who one of their
many Brands is Lumar I’m very familiar with Eric thank you for being on the show today we appreciate you being here
yeah thanks Jesse glad to be here and Mr pson what’s up bro awesome to be on your
podast Easy E in the house we’ll tell we’ll tell that story a little bit later um
but uh no this is awesome Eric uh Eric Holmes man when did you we get before we
talk about when we met I got to ask when did you you were a window tener first
right back when oh were you in Dallas did you grow up in Dallas yep I did I
grew up in Arlington Texas um you know right in high school I had some friends
of mine that were uh window teners and I remember I got my my first uh vehicle
was a 1974 Super Beetle and it was uh all black didn’t have any breaks uh
popped a uh you know spark plug out every once in a while and I’m definitely not mechanically inclined but anyway um
these friends of mine I was like Hey I want these windows tinted well I didn’t know much about window ENT but that is
not a very fun car to film they’re all the back windows very hard it’s rubber set Windows it has the little vent
windows in the front and so you know they hooking up all my friends with window tent they’re like ah I don’t know
about that beetle man that thing’s G to be like a lot more expensive and so you
know I kind of just love the industry I love the trade I mean when I went there
they had music playing it was such a cool Vibe working on cars I thought man this is something that you know I’d like
to get into and so you know I uh I went to the distributor down there was um
American filter film so back at that time Lumar ran through distribution partners and this was in
1997 okay um and so the uh the owner of the company Shades in Irving Texas was
like hey um you know we’d like to hire you but you need to you need to go through Tent School first and I said
okay I I’ll I’ll do that um you know I was just a uh I didn’t have much money I
borrowed $500 to uh pay for my um class at American filter film to go through a
week long window tent school it was their very first school that they had ever uh performed and so here I am you
know week week into this gig I get my first job I’m thinking I’m a window tener the first thing these guys did to
me was throw away all my tools and started uh teaching me how to run cars and clean cars so oh I paid all that
money and and and put in the work for that whole week and uh and was basically
a uh well back they they had other names for this title but for for your podcast we’ll call it shop
Apprentice I I can only imagine so you didn’t get to actually tint after tin School no no so when did you end up
getting into Ting it probably took me about a year I mean you think about back
in the late 90s you know cutting software was a dream I mean yeah I think
ttin Tech 2020 um was in the very early stages of creating their first cutting software so
it it’s uh I mean still to this day it’s it’s very much an artistic trade um but
you know you had to learn how to hand cut and each door is different you got Breakaway doors frameless
doors um at that time believe it or not you know window teners weren’t even shrinking windows in one piece I mean
that was uh you were a pretty good installer um to to do everything in one piece I actually learned learned how to
to seam back windows now it wasn’t the giant overlap seams you saw unless the
customer wanted that $99 special then we would put a big old overlap scam and who who cares but um yeah it took me
probably Josh about I would say a good year before I was semi comfortable on my
own kind of tenning and that was you know these youngsters today learning
this trade they they don’t understand like you know what what kind of maybe some of us went through in the beginning
of this trade which is hey I need to help get these cars in move the seats up take the brake light out flip the mats
over um and then when that job is done I might be able to sit down and learn something from an installer you know and
that’s how I learned the trade so it took a lot of extra time and motivation on on my part and I think a lot of guys
that’s been in this industry a long time they all went through the same thing um but um yeah I’d say back then we used to
say it takes about two years to become really proficient and be able to handle any car that kind of comes into the shop
so that’s what I appreciate so Jesse that’s what I appreciate so much about a guy like Eric who you know he sells
window film and paint protection film but he actually did it he lived it you
know so you know when he walks into a shop and he talks to someone like myself or another restyler you know they they
actually we have a we respect for that you know not that he can go down there and do his Beetle you know that’s a
tough car but he he understands the trade he can he understands where the installer is coming from but now he
knows the other side of the business the sales side the owner side where he can kind of put it all together and help
help a company out yeah yeah and that’s that you know I will tell you I so I did installation
for about uh 133 years and um what is this Mark my 14th year working for a
manufacturer so I’m over the hump I’ve actually spent more time in Corporate America than I have in uh in the
installation game but you know the my sales rep at the time um when she uh got
me on board she said Eric the first thing you need to do is is forget about being an installer and I did not
understand what she meant when she told me that but you know learning how the
business operates and it makes a lot of sense to me 14 years later I mean and I
would I would also challenge you know Corporate America to understand what
what an installer goes through I mean you need to know you know how these guys operate what their preferences are why
certain things make sense why maybe as a sales rep going into a window tent shop
and and really putting a lot of pressure on it in Star to change their Solutions is a really bad idea because they don’t
like to change yes tell me about it tell me about it you know you have to EAS those
conversations in and so I think um you know that it’s definitely given me a lot
of uh experience and and really in my opinion helped me succeed in in
Corporate America so so er Eric how did you go from working in a shop and doing installations and window ENT to actually
working for Eastman how what was that transition like and how did it happen
yeah so um you know I window tning and especially at the level I was doing I
worked I started out at Shades and I did that for a couple years and um I ended
up joining the Marine Corps uh during you know I went in at reservist um came back thank for your
service thank you for your service it’s awesome yeah yeah thank you um I needed
it I was a Helen as a kid and I needed some direction and uh the Marine Corps
gave me all the direction that that I needed and there’s a lot of but don’t you think every window Tiner should have
to go into the Marine Corps for at least months to a year do you know how great the reputation for window tiners would
be at that point I agree I agree kudos to you yeah yeah I mean I
I’m I’m happy at the time I saw the at least had the fortitude to say hey you got a change something Buddy um having a
lot of fun I mean obviously window tent you know especially back then I was making pretty good money before I join the Marine Corps and it’s like all right
I need some direction it it is a full-time job I work 9 to6 days a week
at the shop that I worked at and it was a high volume shop and I think you just
as much as I love the trade itself it’s like okay this long term you know is this really a career you know am I going
to have kids and be married and come home in a salt rung shirt you know every day and and worried about the next you
know the how busy we’re going to be the next day sort of thing so I said okay let me join the Marine Corps let me
figure that out I had some a couple friends of mine did that got out of that and then you
know in in Dallas there was this switch that happened and I’ll give you some
history and this is I think it’s important for restylers as well but you think about back then there’s a lot of
mom and pop shops and a lot of them really uh depended on dealer work and in
Texas anyway um they the shops did not pay installers that well I mean I you
know I started out at this in this industry in 1997 is as a shop Apprentice I made $250 a week I paid my own gas
drove my own car for running cars and whatnot clearly I I really paid to learn
the trade the way I you know I didn’t have much money at that time two years later I think my salary was 450 a week
working six days a week and I could tend anything you threw at me wow well then
installers you know started figuring out that these dealerships pay what’s called
Flat Rate and so they pay a couple hours labor for a car and if you could do
eight to 10 cars a day you do the math I can make $300 a day I was like dude I have got to find a job at a cardio
ship so oddly enough I bought um my wife and I bought two cars at Buzz post and
during Finance I was pitched window T and I said who’s doing your window tent they said you know I we used to do it
here but I think they’re looking for a window tener why do you ask I’m likew I do window t for profession and if you
need a window tener I need a dealership to work at so he introduced me to the service
manager Mike Carlson and that was my first gig working at uh working at a
dealership and so that was really good right I mean financially I I made a lot
of money um as an installer but then it is a it’s a major grind it’s just volume
every day every day and so I decided all right I need to finish
school and I want to still be in the industry but I want to be on the other side of this industry I I love people um
you know working at a card dealership there’s pros and cons I would say you’re you know I’m the guy in the corner in
the room that can’t have you know fans and can’t have people in there and it’s very like you know mundane it’s the same
cars over and over again you don’t get a lot of social um you know activity which is hard for
me uh so I I went back to school graduated in 2009 and got an opportunity
to join salua at that time um in 2010 and moved to Denver Colorado as a
account manager so that’s how how I kind of got my my in into Corporate America
Jesse it just you know we had I had to have a degree right and no matter you know some people can look at that and I
hear Stars today like you know I don’t need to do that requirement I’ve been in this business for x amount of years well
look I thought the same thing but the reality is you can either own the challenge that you have in front of you and go take care of it or make excuses
on why you you didn’t do something and for me I was like hey I’m gonna enroll in school and get this knocked out and
um it it worked well for me so part of that lesson had to have come from the Marines you know adapt and overcome
right I I would say yes I think that’s that’s probably the biggest takeaway I had from
The Ring Corp is you know you can do anything you want to set your mind to I
mean you know and I know a lot of people have that confidence but it is a reality
um you know you might not always understand the path to get there but if you try your best and and work through
the challenges and have the courage to make the decisions then I think you know good things will happen
so and so what are your what’s your current position now and tell us about what your responsible for and and and
what do you what do you do yeah so um kind of started I I’ll just give you the
the uh road map I think it’s pretty cool um I started out as an account manager
with uh with salua we got acquired by Eastman Chemical Company in
2012 um and so when Eastman acquired us obviously there’s a lot of uh which was a great acquisition I was very happy
that we were being acquired salua while it was a great chemical company um didn’t understand our
performance films business and you know they were positioned in the the organization to sell I was super junior
in my career at that point so I I didn’t I didn’t understand the writing on the wall the cost cutting the this the that
all the things that corporations go through when they’re positioning to it’s pretty brutal to work through um but
when we got acquired there was a ton of energy from Eastman into our organization and you know all the way
from the top down I mean Travis Smith was our general manager at that time
just really you know triy to know everybody in the organization um which you know I see I
see your restylers do the same thing right you have to know your team and so that’s how you know that that welcome to
Eastman was and and I was fortunate to be part of a a group discussion around hey we see a
lot of opportunity here how can we grow this business um you know and at the time we we had a
lot of dealer work um I wouldn’t say a lot we had a good foundation of of
dealerships um during solution we had several Distributors we weren’t really Factory Direct so they made the choice
to take over those Distributors and some of those Distributors were really strong at going to dealers and selling our
program so fast forward to win Eastman acarus we have a sales team that is what
I would call kind of a jack of all trade they were responsible for selling uh film to architectural clients which is a
whole different sales process you’re looking at energy reduction you’re dealing with a whole different class of
people than you are when when you deal in the automotive space and in the automotive space you had you know Mom
and Pop Pro Shops some of them had car dealerships but there is a distinct
difference in how you serve um you know a mom and pop um kind of entrepreneur
independent than how you look at servicing a car dealership and even how you service a restyler now today we’re
we’re very segmented and we understand that back then we weren’t structured for
that so they said hey we want to grow this Automotive business how do you what what are some of your ideas and I said
well we really need to focus on building a dealer program we don’t have anything today we’re asking a sales team to go
out and talk to car dealerships which is very intimidating in its own and and
then you have to learn about a parts department a service department you know sales Finance all these things come
together and we’re just not going to be effective unless we have a team um to do
that and so we set out to Pilot a program that I was a part of it was me and another guy and we ran a pilot with
10 customers across the country um for about a year and our goal in that pilot
was not to understand preload business that’s very easy to understand give me some keys we’ll put our product on put
an addendum on put it on the lot I mean there’s not much to that process clearly
setting it up there is but really what we wanted to see is can we be effective
in taking a dealership that might say I don’t want to preload but I want to sell after the fact can we help them grow
their their penetration can we take a a dealership and and double their growth
and we were successful in doing that which which really eliminated some some
risk for East to build a Salesforce to go out and and Service Automotive
dealerships if everybody in the world uh depended on preloads um that’s you know that’s it’s
a a lot of the business is preload but it can be challenging if you don’t understand how to work with the deal or
to sell after the fact so um yeah we started with two and we we contined to
grow it I think today I have about 50 people roughly in my organization um so
I started out as an account manager moved into a um a kind of a special
assignment sales role if you will to help launch this program got promoted to
kind of a a regional manager then a North American sales manager and then last year at the beginning of the year
moved into a more of a commercial uh leadership role so
so is there any more rungs on the ladder no I’m joking there’s there’s a lot there’s a lot of r I’m I’m never content
Josh I know I know oh my gosh so let me
tell a funny story before before we talk about how we met because that was kind
of a fluke too um CU that was back when you were getting started so that’s right where we’re at so this is this Jesse this is
uh 20 this is preco yeah this is 2019 uh with I’m talking about huh at
SEMA no no no no no 20 I’m talking about I’m talking about when it was Halloween yeah oh yeah yeah yeah 2019 poolside at
the Paris I think uh Paris hotel in Vegas SEMA Cosmo it was at the cosmo it
was at the cosmo okay so I uh so I’m going I go to the Lumar party and
there’s my man and I I walk up and I it was kind of dark out but then he came
around the corner and this man had his full Compton hat with his Jerry
curl wig black leather jacket and you know of course he’s a big NWA fan and
I’m and then I’m like Easy E easy Eric and I’m like that nickname will stick
for life he it was it was a true H homage I guess we say to uh NWA but uh
he looked the part and man I from to that day I just every time I see him It’s Easy E now from now on I hey I I
took a page out of your book Josh you are always bringing fun entertainment to
any group you’re a part of and it’s uh but you know that was an interesting because we’re there you know here I am
working for a Fortune 500 Chemical Company all we’re at SEMA it’s Halloween
you know I understand our customer base right they like to have fun but this is a it’s a our parties are nice events
very nice most everybody were in you know suits whatever and I’m like you
know what it’s Halloween I’m doing it and so I didn’t know if it was going to be a career limiting move or if uh but
it it turned out to be a pretty good uh pretty good move so everyone oh yeah it was funny so so so you started with uh
so when did you said solia bot East or Eastman bot solia when 2012 so that had to been real close to
uh when you came to Columbus then right I think I met you guys around it was
either 13 or 14 is when we started kind of working together and uh yeah that was
a very you know I I really to be CED I had no idea what a restyler like a true
restyler was I understood what a service provider was but I did not really understand what a restyle was as
I think a lot of people in this industry don’t understand what totally I mean you know clearly I
think aftermarket manufacturers like you know go RH on in companies like they
understand right that’s how they go to market but we you know in the film business we did not really understand as
a lot of restylers at that time would sublet work out to our independence to do do the work for the restyler so yeah
that was um yeah you you can tell the story I’m happy to talk about how we we walked in and I I was very hesitant in
the in the beginning because I know like I I mean we so we you know we have a
stylers United meeting right so we need so we have all the guys come in uh from
different shops that are part of our group and usually we’ll invite a vendor or two to come speak well at our
previous meeting which I think we were in San Francisco yeah I think we were in San Francisco before because we said hey
let’s have a cuz let’s have a Window Tint company come talk to us because a
lot of the companies including myself were wanting to get more into window tint window film paint protection film
um as another as another uh product so we were going to talk to um I think it
was going to I think 3M was going to come but I was hosting in Columbus and I was getting in the business and there
was a one of the Distributors for Lumar at that time was in my backyard and they were constantly trying to get me to buy
their product so I had I had been in the business a little bit and we were using
3M but I said all right I’ll tell you what why don’t you guys come show up to
our meeting and talk to our group cuz you’re in Columbus it’ll be easy and then they reached out to Eastman and
said hey Eastman why don’t you guys come to Columbus and speak to this group
where that we’re distributor but we can’t service all these customers Nationwide so they wanted Eastman
representation so I was like all right great and I remember this guy named Mike from Eastman been there for 30 some
years came and next to him is Easy E and
so Eric’s obviously young guy in the business and I was like oh okay and so
and I’ll tell I’ll let Eric tell it from his end but what was funny is you know he comes in he does a full presentation
he has to do the whole thing but what I liked about Eric is he was a window tener at one time he understood the
dealer business CU like he said he worked for a dealership and so once he put two and two together what we do and
where we were all across the country um it would it it worked out just really well so maybe you can tell the story
about Denver market and how you kind of got involved yeah I mean I think the
lesson that I took away from the overall experience right is is trust and transparency those two things are are
really critical for this whole operation and for our Partnerships to be successful but you can imagine I mean
I’ll give you some prehistory just you know now I’m a couple years into this I’ve got six or seven people on the team
um we’ve we’ve put on some significant growth we’re putting a lot of effort into growing the dealer business and
then a distributor that we have a obviously a great relationship with that
distributor but as I told you those Distributors are being phased out so it was like you know and our our kind of
thinking behind that was hey we want to make we don’t want to go into any market and start calling on dealers without
understanding who our customers are what relationships they have Etc ET so it was a it was an interesting scenario where
we didn’t really have that much market knowledge in in Ohio but um you know
Mike uh at that time who’s now Mike Cala he’s now an Eastman employee we’re glad to have him he uh he’s helps us with
pattern acquisition in BO um Bo was over there at at uh performance
performance um got on the phone with me asked me to come do this I said what is a restyler and where are these they’re
all over the country what are okay okay well it just so happened that one of my
first accounts I got as an account manager back in 2010 was uh downtown um like Denver BMW
and Mercedes and it was a family-owned group um they had been doing window 10 and ppf
in- house for a long time um I was successful in converting that account over to to our program well that dealer
group got acquired by uh Sonic Automotive Group which in the in the dealer business especially over the last
couple years you know consolidation has been a big thing but at that time um a
guy by the name of Josh elliottt and his company’s Autoplex here in Denver has a
great relationship with uh Brian who was the GM came through Sonic and whatnot
and um I heard some Rumblings from the installation team that that they were
were going to make some changes to to use a vendor and that vendor was Autoplex so interesting story I sat in
that waiting room to talk to the GM I’d never met um Josh or Tony previous to
this meeting and it was now now that I know who they are they literally sat in
that meeting for probably an hour and a half and it it was me and and another employee just waiting patiently to talk
and once that meeting ended everybody kind of darted and and Brian came over and he said said hey you know sorry yeah
we’re making a switch and you guys have been a great partner it’s not nothing about your service but we just don’t
want to manage this program and we’re very connected with with Josh and the Autoplex team and I thought okay um you
know and that was personal to me it was my first account I did a lot of work to help them over the years and so I went
to the installer I said hey give me that business card of the person that you know is going to uh to take over and of
course the instars are up in arms right they’re like I’m not like I’m quitting find me another
job and so the end end of the world end of the world yeah and I just said hey do
not make any rash decisions here just this is a great dealership for you guys
there’s not a lot the grass is not greener than this and know there’s a high volume good account don’t don’t
leave over this decision just hang tight you know so and they’re like okay Eric
so I called Tony at the time because that was the card I got and left him a message and said hey you know I know you
use 3M I know you just got this account I would love to talk to you about maybe
just keeping this account Lumar and let’s work together and so they had um called me
back and I found out from them that their biggest challenge at the time was
we have to keep these installers we do not have extra installers to put at the uh at the shop and I said well I can
help you with that um and but you know and I would like to keep this business
and they said well all right you help us keep the in Stars we’ll give you a shot at BMW and and we’ll go from there fast
forward like a week or two and I’m looking at the list of R20 dealers and Autoplex is one of them and I’m like
okay all right this is going to be a good event um so we we were invited we
hosted a dinner at what Smith and willinsky oh yeah I make the window t companies pay big time yeah yeah had a
had a couple cocktails got to know the R20 group and what a what an awesome
group of of guys but you know going back to the business I think it was you know
I had to get up there and say and and this is joshu where I think a lot of your group appreciates how we handle it
I said look this business is messy and the channels are messy I said there are
Independents out there um at the time permaplate which was acquired by by our
competitor expel um they have a whole business where they do nothing but sell film to
car dealerships and and they actually do the labor as well um and so it’s it’s an
area that we have to to be a part of we have to we have to succeed there but we
also um want to support Partners like rears to go out and get that business we
don’t have to have it directly we we can have it through Partners but we need somebody focused on it and the problem
with Independence is and I get it right you have a smaller shop maybe four Bays maybe three Bays you don’t want to clog
it up with a bunch of low volume or or low margin rather wholesale work that’s
going to pay you on net 30 that expects you to drop everything at at any moment to go pick up a car um you know if you
can fill it with retail then do it you know and that’s what a lot of our Independents do they don’t like working
with dealers so once I found out about restylers and how you’re structure you
have outside salese you understand how to call on the dealer you’re good with the the margin issue like hey it’s
because you know restylers have a book of other deals to sell to car dealers
it’s not just window tent it’s not just paint protection film you want leather Wheels tires vehicle security it’s all
encompassing and when you look at it from the account level it’s very much worth it yeah you know and so that’s
that was um really really a great match made in heaven for us to to be able to
work with a partner that that understood the mission is we’ve got to go out and help these dealers succeed and we don’t
care if they succeed on on internally or if they partner with a restyler that wants to do it that way and so we share
tactics tips tricks like clearly I think there is a sweet spot for the right size
dealership for a restyler if you get some of these dealers that are selling 300 cars a month I mean clearly they
have the volume to manage you know an in-house program and still some of them don’t have the capability to do it so it
still works out yeah totally what do you what what advice would you give a shop if let’s
say they’re wanting to um maybe they do have some tin experience but they want to go after that dealership business
what what advice would you give them if they have the little bit of a foundation they already have a tinter they already are doing some tint work or ppf you know
ppf is probably even a better story to tell how do you go how do you go after the dealership yeah I would I I would
say just that right I mean you got to use the strategy of of land and expand I mean it you know you can’t just go in
there and you know I think first and foremost what is great for our industry
and if you do like a Google search consumer search what what do consumers want out of a window film product
ceramic films over the last decade have been a really fast growing product line
for us and the assumption is that the dealer wants everything the cheapest possible price you know so go in first
and don’t don’t go to the bottom you know just talk to them about hey cons and bring some data they they like to
see data um consumers know about ceramic window film it’s a differentiator uh the the shop can sell
that for more than a a typical $129 wholesale special or whatever it is
to the dealer the dealer they they need to understand that the dealer has to make money if the dealer is not going to
make money you’re you’re pretty much useless to them um and so you got to get in the weeds with understanding how
they’re if they’re going to preload what price are they going to put it on the addendum is the parts department got
their hand in the cookie jar there’s a service department you know you kind of have to work through a lot of those
details but then it’s about gaining other business it’s you know what other services can you provide is it paint
protect film is it you know like I said are there other services that that work for you and I think from a financial
standpoint you have to look at a dealership as what kind of monthly revenue is that account bringing in for
you not what job did I do for the dealership today and I just kicked out a retail Customer because that was a $500
tent job and this dealer wants me to move that out for a $200 tent job well
if that deal is sending you 20 grand a month it’s not a $200 tent job it’s a $20,000 account so you know I think
that’s where you know a lot of um you now if look here here’s the here here’s
the the reality too if if you’re at capacity doing retail work I would question why do you want to go do dealer
work it’s a good point yeah it’s a good point the problem is what happens don’t you think Eric is they look in one day
they don’t have as much work and they’re like oh I should be a dealers but then like you said once you do get in uh in bed with a
dealership then they they expect you to be there all the time not just when it’s convenient for you so are you willing to
either do more work or tell a couple retail people push them off to take care
of the dealership so before you decide to get married that’s what it is it’s a
marriage you’re the Josh you’re absolutely right and I think you know these guys work 367 days a year they’re
open they never their expectations are High um but I
would say if you get if you find the right partner you know they can be very uh profitable for for a shop and you
know I think um it leads to bigger opportunities down the road but yeah I I
think dealer works not for everyone but it you have to be in the right mindset to understand this is not a winter
solution until you get to that summer retail you know Blitz where if you if
you get that dealer you need to make sure even during the busy times that they’re a priority to
you um if you want to maintain them because if you don’t care to maintain them then don’t make them a priority and
I promise you it’s so easy for these guys to switch I mean and Jess Jesse what I love is Eric’s team will help a
shop go through this they’ll you know even if you’re a shop and you want to talk to Eric’s team they’ll walk you
through it and they’ll tell you okay are you really ready to do this if you are we’ll help you great it makes you know
it’s good for them them but they’ll also walk you through it and you know they’ll be honest with you transparency like he said that’s what I’ve always appreciated
about it I love how you said land and expand that’s just a great simple sales
uh piece of advice I love it uh I really love that how how about uh tell us a
little bit more about Lumar and What Makes You Different what’s your what’s your what makes you guys unique in the
industry I mean restylers and installers have a lot of different options nowadays
and what makes Lumar special yeah yeah no it’s uh you know when I got into this there’s only a few
Brands and now it seems like every year at SEMA there’s 15 more boosts with uh I’m like who is that you know so um yeah
I think you know first and foremost Lumar started out really over over 50 years ago manufacturing um in
Martinsville Virginia and the the kind of expertise came out of textile
manufacturing which is which is Big up in that area area and you know they started processing
films um and so just uh you know I’d say one of our core competencies as a as a
company is really our manufacturing capabilities Innovation um you know and
and again I think we might be passed up um by an Indian manufacturer but uh for
the longest time we’re we’re probably the the we were the largest manufacturer of of window film and probably arguably
still on on ppf um but you know I think the the big
difference now today is like there’s a lot of good products out there um one of
the best decisions that our company made was and I’m not saying this as any harm to a
distributor but you can imagine the challenge of of being run through a distribution model it’s very challenging
to get six seven eight Distributors all on the same page especially with a
program like mine so if I want to go meet with an R20 group and Josh is in
Columbus but we have Brad Marion in in California those programs have to have
to look the same feel the same be the same right when you run through distribution you don’t have that control
you you don’t have the control to get that distributor on the west coast to do the same thing that the Midwest
distributor is doing so a lot of people think oh you know manufacturers they go
Factory Direct because it’s less money the Distributors not taking margin um from my experience I would say that’s
that’s not all the way true we spend a ton of money and now we own the marketing we own the sales people we own
the tech service people and I think that’s what makes Lumar um different and
number one we’re a manufacturer so we can control our quality we can control our Innovation um then we’re staffed
appropriately to service our customers and that’s all the way through right it’s from tech services so you know
installation in our business and I think Josh would agree with me is the largest
number one barrier to to Growing it’s demand is there I mean Us sales people
we we get frustrated sometimes I’m not getting that deal or trying to grow demand but if I look at it from 30,000
fet demand is here what the challenges is can you efficiently put that product
on the car exceed the customer expect ations and will they tell their mom their brother their sister and come back
and and get you know another job that’s what we have to do right and so I think
you know where where I’m super proud of eastmen is that they understand that and they provide the resources and team to
be able to go out and execute that so you know I have some strong competitors in the business um some of them you know
they have portions of that right um my largest competitor they don’t make anything they buy uh from you know other
suppliers and and they Market very well and they do have a great team out in the field that that provides those Services
um we feel like we have an advantage with our ability to make our own products and and hit the market with new
Innovations Etc um but it’s it’s interesting you know you see a lot of window film and
paint protection film companies now like kind of getting into things like ceramic
Coatings and re reboxing that or rebranding it to your brand that hasn’t
been our strategy we kind of want to stay in our lane with what we’re good at and we have no no problem uh referring
you know Partners in the business to say look if you want a ceramic cating you know these are the you know Modesta G
Technic whatever these are companies that that we hear really good things about in the market um I’m happy to pair
you up with those guys you know we’ve talked about maybe Manu ufacturing one
um but for us right now we we need to focus on what we’re good at and and get it right you know I think a lot of what
I love about you know just the film business what I’ve learned in the last you know 15 years with doing film is it
doesn’t matter what the manufacturers do with a car so this whole push on EV when
you’re when you’re really focused on film who cares if it’s an EV the film goes on an EV just the same as it does
everything else if it doesn’t matter whether it’s a truck doesn’t matter whether it’s a car an SUV a CUV it
doesn’t matter uh until they stop painting cars or until they stop putting
glass in cars then you know then we got a problem so where do you think you know
the potential I mean do you have any stats you know that you can just I mean I know 65% of all statistics are made up
on the spot but uh what do you do you do you have any stats to show how much of
the market ppf is really doing or what the potential is for fil for tint or for
ppf yeah I mean I I think it would be less than 5% um really are are 5% of
consumers are buying ppf today and it’s I mean I think that’s a stretch you know I think years ago we used to think that
window film was probably if you averaged it out in North America maybe two out of 10 consumers purchased window film we
believe that number’s grown um pretty significantly and I think ppf is
definitely growing over the last couple years it’s it’s exploding covid really helped us with that um you know you
think about consumers paying 10 grand over sticker price for the car I think there’s something in your head that’s
like well I hope used car Valu stay high but you know what I think I’m going to
go ahead and put a little ppf on this car and protect it because I need to hold my value on this car and I want it
to stay nice maybe I’m going to keep it longer because I just paid a lot of money for this vehicle um and not to
mention look for all parties involved right it’s it’s a very profitable
installation uh not only for a restyler even a restyler selling it to the dealer
there is profit all the way around and so it’s it’s you know obviously again
installation becomes the biggest barrier so I think there’s room a lot of room for growth and you think about like you
you mentioned something about hey unless unless people stop painting cars it’s interesting what’s happening with this
uh cyber truck right oh yeah so you’ve got you know the vinyl industry is huge
uh a lot of people are wrapping cars customization nobody’s going to you know anyone that buys a cyber truck that’s
the first thing they’re going to do how do I make this look different from everyone else’s aluminum gray cyber
truck y um so I would expect us to have some Innovations and and colors um and
different things down the road to handle so even if they stop painting cars Josh we have a solution for you look at you
he’s always coming see Jesse that’s why he’s that’s why he’s where he’s at I mean doing what he you know what we I’ll
tell you guys a funny story so I met with my uh Team this man this was I don’t know 10 15 years ago and I was
really just driving down on man is it possible that we can grow or are we are we Tapped Out you know what’s where are
we at and um katkin kind of gave me the idea because they did it first so I just did the numbers so I I I figured all of
the cars that were sold in my market and then how many of the cars we actually
touched and back then it was 2% so we touched 2% of the cars and I
looked at my team and I said guys look I don’t want 100% you know why cuz we couldn’t do it I said we can’t even do
four to 5% we can you imagine if our workload double I said but can we get to
3% so when you say ppf’s at 5% I’m looking at that we all we call it the we
stink board I think lot Leslie called it something worse but we we stink we’re only touching 2% of the cars but if you
think about as in Industry we’re only touching 5% at most of the vehicles with
ppf what if that doubles in the next 5 years it’s only still at 10% if it triples it’s only at 15%
there’s so much opportunity that’s why I love it I I think the kager for ppf is
somewhere around 8% in my in my belief I feel like it’s a much stronger
opportunity I think the reason why it’s not bigger is because it is a very difficult product to un to put on and so
that’s one of the things that we are trying to solve for um we’ve invested a ton of resources in identifying you know
with window film it’s like okay I can teach you the basics and and I’m not gonna belittle window film I I spent 13
years doing it it takes time but you with a plotter now that cuts everything
like you know you need to learn how to shrink you need to learn how to how to put product on cars are also made a lot
different today than they were uh you know 20 years ago I mean you know we we teach really to bottom load window tent
so you these cars snap together these days you can just pop the panel back and drop the bottom of the film in it does a
very clean in all if anything the learning curve becomes how do I pop this
panel back right which for a restyler you got plenty of people in the shop that know how to do that um and so you
can learn you won’t be fast but after a week or so you can learn you know the
basics of of installation with window film and then it becomes repetition um that you can’t do every
car throwing at you it takes a while to learn after a year you’re going to be pretty good at it with ppf it’s so such
a different animal I mean there are you know from patterning the vehicles that’s
a big big investment that we’ve made millions and millions of dollars in that’s gone into pattern
acquisition um but then you know learning how to install I mean each panel is has got its own unique set of
challenges whether where do you start how do you stretch it you know do I understand like this this piece is not
laying down right now you got to walk away from it maybe move on to another part let it kind of sit let it dry then
go back and VOA it it goes down you know it’s ppf installation is a very mental
um game and so that’s one thing if you’re an owner and you and you’re trying to get into ppf uh you need to
really make sure you’re you’re taking good care of that installer and kind of understanding that they really it
doesn’t look like it but I promise you they’re under a lot of mental stress trying to you know they’re they’re
constantly questioning themselves can I learn this can I get this done is it me is it the film um we get a lot of the
blame sometimes you know it’s it’s it’s always the manufacturer’s fault always
always and so you know that that’s been uh but they take it so well so it’s great you know we we appreciate and they
are they are one of the easiest companies to work with out there as far as customer service but go ahead Jesse
sorry I was just going to ask you know obviously things have changed since you
first got in the industry uh can you touch on that a little bit more and then but more importantly where do you think
the whole industry is going you’ve kind of you mentioned a few ideas but I would love for you to elaborate on that a
little bit Yeah I think um you know I think from two perspectives right I think if we talk about retail what’s
interesting about the retail side of this business is that consumers are getting more educated about things like
paint protection film things like ceramic window film and so you know if you thought if you ever got your windows
tinted in the late ’90s you walked into a shop you asked them to tent your car they gave you one price you gave them
the keys your car went in the back and got window 10 there was no very few shops at that time were educating
consumers on the differences between you know types of films there’s there’s you
know dyed films met at that time Metalized we still make Metalized films ceramic films and then you know you have
this kind of ultra performing ceramic line of films and as consumers have been
more educated you know I think that’s drove the value of those ceramic prices
up to where you know look there’s there’s some shops out there doing doing window tent jobs for $600 $700 today and
and you know I don’t I think that’s good it’s good for the shop it’s good for the consumer they’re doing high quality work
um what that allows for is really high margin less volume so from a retail
standpoint that’s that’s pretty strong ppf man that has been such a good
addition to to our customers um for us to manufacture you know the evolution of
how how pay protection it it started out you know I’m in an area Denver Colorado
where um for years ppf was sold as just like a 12in do you want a 12in piece on
the on the nose of your car do you want a 18inch piece or a 24inch piece and that was the pricing now I mean you
would be amazed at how many consumers how many dealers are preloading you know
full matte wraps on on vehicles and put it on the showroom there you know let’s say a wholesale price you know
67,000 I I I don’t want to tell people what they should charge but there’s plenty of money to make in that and then
they market up 8500 10 grand they’re happy you’re happy they’re giving you cars that’s awesome I mean in our
business in the film business to get a ticket with that kind of price on it was
obsolete years ago so I think that’s um you know you know that’s changed what’s also changed I would say is is just the
nature of installation especially at at the wholesale level you think about now
we have uh a lot of money invested in cutting software um and there’s really
two players in that Arena um my main competitor and then and then us with core and our competitor you know if you
look at the Acquisitions they’ve made over the last several years um they really have been acquiring companies
that uh provide installation to dealers and so that’s where you know a lot of people see you know from our side of
things there’s a lot of growth um in that Arena uh again if you think about
most Independents they don’t want to work with dealers for all the reasons I stated you know earlier Net 30 Terms uh
it’s it’s a marriage Josh to your point um and so now you have this you know
interesting Dynamic of of a a company that’s putting a lot of resources into
um doing installation at this level so you know things are changing it’s it’s not about continue to add new shops I
mean for for any manufacturer that’s a hard task right because then you start getting into Market disruption issues
it’s like does Josh want me to put 15 dealers in Columbus Ohio to continue to grow no so 13 13’s fine 15’s a little
much but you know and that’s and and we look at it that way like hey my goal is
not to set up a million restyler I don’t if I have the right restyler I don’t need more restylers in that market it’s
you know it’s because we are we’re kind of you know if you think about how our go to market strategy is is chaotic it’s
chaos I mean we have we have entrepreneur uh retail shops uh that are doing a great job there’s been a whole
another segment of these high-end detail shops I was just talking to somebody about that the other day Josh Jesse you
remember in the 90s right maybe early 2000s did you ever know of a shop that
just detailed cars I mean you might went to Mr Car Wash you might go to the
dealership and get an oil change and they wash your car for free but there were no like high-end detail shops you
go to SEMA today that has a whole wing of detail chemical ceramic Coatings all
these yep so now that’s a whole another segment another channel of you know um
whatever you want to jobbers I I don’t know what the particular term it would be but it’s a whole another channel of people installing film and do because
codings is paired extremely well with paint protection film coding helps you keep your car clean for a long period of
time paint protection film helps it from getting chipped up you know Etc and so
now that’s another kind of channel so it’s it’s just interesting kind of how
um you know then we have Styers we sell direct to dealers so we have to manage that very very uh transparent with our
restyle partners and and with the dealers you know who would you say your favorite restyler is oh man all no I’m
joking all I love putting people on the spot like that I will tell you this if you
say Jared I’m gonna punch you I will tell you this I I’ve been around I I
love Josh how organized R20 is I think it’s such a you know you you’ve taken a
page out of out of dealerships I mean and and probably out of other Industries right I mean that have these 20 groups
but it is it is awesome what you guys do to bring in restylers from across the
country share tips and tricks on you know hey what is your market doing here
um when you guys start something like film when I first met you guys right there was Josh killed it with film autox
he about the only one yeah not many of you Brad never touched it um man was
dabbling in it you know and you were getting started um and so it’s like this
collaboration of hey um once we start working with one it was like I had a lot of support from within your network it’s
like well Lumar we helping everybody but y’all were also collaborating and helping each other which was uh I mean
if you’re looking to recruit and you’re restyler I would say a fantastic opportunity if if you have a growth
mindset and want to do big things I mean just that help is yeah great you know I
want to test Bas uh you know because we only have a few minutes left also your volunteerism that you’ve done I mean you
spent uh six years on the select Pro select committee um why do you think
that why do you think being involved as a volunteer with SEMA you know and having to take your hat off many times
your your your company hat to just focus on the industry and and all why do you think that was important and why do you
encourage your team to still stay involved yeah I mean uh thanks to you Josh you you said Eric I think you would
make a really good um person you were you were volun told I mean I said I said
it was like Amway I was like you’re coming to my next meeting and anything you sell I get 10% of or something like
but I didn’t know you weren’t actually making any money so yeah I mean you think about Sean I attended the show for
years I mean since 20 10 I’ve been at every show um minus last year and you
know I think um I had no idea the the organization of SEMA itself and as a
vendor that goes and exhibits at SEMA you really don’t I mean I would say unless maybe we’re just idiots in the
film business we’ve been smelling too much adhesive or something I don’t really know but I had no idea the
structure of SEMA so when you presented me with that opportunity said hey we actually sema’s made up of you know it’s
a nonprofit it’s made up of all these count councils that support the industry and I’m like and there’s a there’s a
restyle Council um I thought wow what what an outstanding opportunity I mean look
selfishly for for my own business I’ve met great people like Ron Leslie for example you know they they call on the
same customers they they have a similar operation they’ve got to go out get the car before it’s sold pattern the seats
and and get it out I mean a little different go to market strategy and you know they don’t leather every single car
we’re forced to pattern every single car um but it’s interesting kind of networking and learning from other
manufacturers other restylers how things are done um look you know I’m I’m one to
share my failures in this industry and if that can help somebody else it sure helps me when someone tells me hey I
beat my head against this brick wall for 10 years and it didn’t do anything so don’t go down that path you know and so
I it’s it’s just um I think if you’re open to learning and and collaborating
what a great opportunity to do that there’s just a lot of great people in the business I think you start to
understand and see Trends on on what the industry is faced with and you know
things like EV cars I mean how does that how does automotive aftermarket handle
um you know our traditional go to market is go to the dealer where the vehicle is sold and pitch accessories there well
how do we do that when it’s sold on the internet you know yeah and a lot of us don’t have you know the the resources
time to to try and Target some of these guys you know at the OEM level but
certain manufacturers do and if we can share those contacts and relationships um you know I think that’s
where where some magic happens so I it was a a great experience for me um just
learning learning about everything and and super happy Josh and thankful that you asked me to do that and yeah when I
turned out um I’m I was highly encouraged and even years before that
right I think for the for the council itself the Integrity of the council you need to have people sitting on there
that are passionate about what the mission is sure and one of the things I learned is that SEMA being a nonprofit
has a lot of funding so if you can put together a pitch uh for something that that seem feels like they needed support
then you know the council can actually make some real changes in this business and so that was um and we did some good
things right we came out with um accessory sales test I flew out to
California and helped uh kind of re vitalize some of that now there’s a lot of information I didn’t know about in
there because it’s not just film that we’re selling here we’re selling tires wheels and everything but um it was good
to to learn about you you know just so many things how how do dealers what’s the lingo right um what are different
manufacturers what kind of lingo are they using when they go in and call on these dealers maybe we should try to
align or assimilate so we we have a similar message going into the store are you are you suggesting we come up with
like an Easy E glossery Yeah of some kind for dealers I think that you know
that would definitely be it Jesse go ahead sorry ER Eric um thank you so much
for doing this today how how how can somebody get a hold of you uh what what websites do you want people to know
about and if restylers have questions how how do they get in touch yeah I think um I mean I’m happy to I could
share my cell phone number my email I mean um L what’s your email Eric it’s
Eric ec. homes Eastman M
n.com that’s my email um you know uh I
I’ll cell phone 72272 6833 in case you need that um but yeah
go to our website check out our products um you know I think if you have any connections with Josh or this group Josh
has has made several connections over the years um and so you know very happy
to help anybody out um you know passionate about the industry I’m so
excited about our future I think this year you look at you know what’s happening right we we’ve all been on a I
would I would say there’s been some some headaches but for the most part the accessory business has been on a gravy
train for the past 2 three years way too easy yeah this year I think it changes a
little bit um that’s okay let’s do this I like it we need we need to get back to work we got to get back to the Grind uh
you know interest rates are high car prices are high uh used car values will likely stay pretty good so that’s uh
that’s positive for us inventory is coming back which will create some pricing pressures
with dealers and their their um you know affinity for maybe loading a $2,000
package on a car $3,000 package so we’re going to have to get uh we’re going to have to stop talking about how dealers
can take advantage of not having much Supply and and focus that on how they can differentiate uh from their
competitors Lots with products on their car and now I walk into a dealership you know what my sales pitch is Eric it’s I
complete you you need me now you know how you’ve been like ignoring me for the last 3
years now you need me let’s work together let’s figure out let’s get you back into the get back into the the
black real quick so no Eric Eric thank you very much for joining us tighten in our industry so awesome to be a part of
and just the best guy to have a beer with the only problem is it’s going to be more than one so get ready hang on
and this dude will tell you funny story after funny story but I love you bro you’re a good guy love you too Josh
Jesse awesome to meet you guys happy to to be on this show thank you so much for inviting me yeah thank
you and there you have it another high octane episode of the ride in style podcast reved up and ready to go your
hosts Jesse Stoddard and Josh pson shifted your Automotive game into
overdrive if you’re hungry for more insights Trends and game-changing interviews from the automotive restyling
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